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Is thorium the energy source we've been waiting for?
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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 02, 2008 10:44 pm 
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honzik wrote:
Best regards,

Dr. Honzik, Ph.D.

(Of course, I used my real name instead of my EfT name...)

What? That is not your name, Dr.!
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 02, 2008 10:49 pm 
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honzik wrote:
Kirk Sorensen wrote:
If you read the legislation (not the press release) it's pretty hard for me to see a place where thorium LWR technology is favored over potential thorium use in LFTR...


I agree. Sections 4 and 6 sound like an oblique reference to the properties of an MSR.

Or to the properties of LFTR.
In any case, all our stock just went up! Correct that. None of us have stock, or any financial interest in this. It is because right reason and the best technology may have a chance to prevail!


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 02, 2008 11:19 pm 
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Augustine wrote:
honzik wrote:
Best regards,

Dr. Honzik, Ph.D.

(Of course, I used my real name instead of my EfT name...)

What? That is not your name, Dr.!
:lol:


Yep. That's me, a man of mystery. :) Actually, my name is John, but I lived in the Czech Republic for many years and sometimes post with a Czech name. Honzik is a Czech diminuative for John, and is also, oddly enough, the Czech translation of my German last name.


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 03, 2008 2:49 am 
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Press release on this topic from "Thorium Power", soon to be called "LightBridge":

Thorium Power Welcomes the Introduction of the Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act

another press release from "Thorium Energy" which owns the Lemhi Pass thorium supply:

Senate Bill Authorizes Use of Thorium in US Nuclear Power Plants


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 03, 2008 8:51 am 
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AREVA Federal Services has been doing some paper exercises concerning placing Thorium in LWR's for over a year now. I have not yet been involved in the work, but maybe soon. We are always fishing for new contract opportunities like this and we actually got some money to explore Thorium. There apparently IS interest out there, you just have to beat the bushes to find it.

_________________
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Graduate Student: Nuclear Engineering
University of Tennessee at Knoxville
E-mail: wcasino@utk.edu

Nuclear Engineer II
AREVA Federal Services
Email: william.casino@areva.com


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 03, 2008 9:41 am 
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This bill is a remarkable start towards the utilization of thorium as a planetary energy source, but to truly accomplish the intention expressed in its title (Energy Independence) I believe that the language needs to be unambiguously oriented towards fluid-fueled reactors rather that solid-core oxide reactors. Those solid-core reactors simply will not be able to use thorium economically or efficiently enough to achieve energy independence. Liquid-fluoride reactors could, if they were developed.

Along those lines, here would be my suggested modifications in the "Findings" section:

Quote:
Congress finds that—
(1) the United States and foreign countries will require massive and increasing quantities of energy during the 20-year period beginning on the date of enactment of this Act to support economic growth;

(2) nuclear power provides energy without generating unacceptable quantities of greenhouse gasses;

(3) thorium is the only abundant nuclear fuel that can be used completely in a safe, thermal-neutron-spectrum reactor;

(4) the generation of nuclear power in the United States and many foreign countries has been discouraged by concerns regarding—(A) the proliferation of weapons-usable material; and (B) the proper disposal of spent nuclear fuel;

(5) nuclear power plants operating on an advanced thorium fuel cycle to generate nuclear energy create a nuclear byproduct (uranium-232) whose decay makes the fuel of a thorium cycle reactor unsuitable for use in nuclear weapons;

(6) this byproduct also make conventional fabrication of solid nuclear fuel elements difficult and uneconomical for current solid-core reactors;

(7) this aspect of thorium use led early nuclear experts such as Eugene Wigner and Alvin Weinberg to propose the use of thorium in liquid-fueled reactors where fuel fabrication was unnecessary;

(8) these liquid-fueled reactors were originally developed in the United States by Oak Ridge National Laboratory and demonstrated to be safe and effective, but national priorites at the time did not advance their development;

(9) those national priorities are now significantly different and liquid-fueled thorium reactors can achieve national goals of—(A) long-term energy independence; (B) resistance to nuclear proliferation; and (C) near-elimination of nuclear waste requiring geologic disposal;

(10)(A) thorium is more abundant than uranium; and (B) the United States possesses significant domestic quantities of thorium to ensure energy independence;

(11) it is in the national security and foreign policy interest of the United States that foreign countries seeking to establish or expand generation and use of nuclear power should be provided—(A) access to advanced thorium fuel cycle technology; and (B) incentives to reduce the risk of nuclear proliferation.


Comments, suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 03, 2008 10:04 am 
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There are discussions of this bill (some linking here) on both the NEI blog:

Congress Introduces Legislation to Tap Thorium as a New Source of Power for the Country

and Luke Weston's blog "Physical Insights":

Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008

and of course "Nuclear Green" which is basically the sister blog to this site.

Feel free to post links you find on this issue here!


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 03, 2008 10:12 am 
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Here's a link to the legislation on the Senate web site:

S.3680: A bill to amend the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 to provide for thorium fuel cycle nuclear power generation.

check the link to "Thomas" on the left side of the page...

link to bill on Thomas


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 03, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Kirk Sorensen wrote:
This bill is a remarkable start towards the utilization of thorium as a planetary energy source, but to truly accomplish the intention expressed in its title (Energy Independence) I believe that the language needs to be unambiguously oriented towards fluid-fueled reactors rather that solid-core oxide reactors. Those solid-core reactors simply will not be able to use thorium economically or efficiently enough to achieve energy independence. Liquid-fluoride reactors could, if they were developed.

Along those lines, here would be my suggested modifications in the "Findings" section:

Kirk Sorensen wrote:
Congress finds that—
(1) the United States and foreign countries will require massive and increasing quantities of energy during the 20-year period beginning on the date of enactment of this Act to support economic growth;

(2) nuclear power provides energy without generating unacceptable quantities of greenhouse gasses;

(3) thorium is the only abundant nuclear fuel that can be used completely in a safe, thermal-neutron-spectrum reactor;

(4) the generation of nuclear power in the United States and many foreign countries has been discouraged by concerns regarding—(A) the proliferation of weapons-usable material; and (B) the proper disposal of spent nuclear fuel;

(5) nuclear power plants operating on an advanced thorium fuel cycle to generate nuclear energy create a nuclear byproduct (uranium-232) whose decay makes the fuel of a thorium cycle reactor unsuitable for use in nuclear weapons;

(6) this byproduct also make conventional fabrication of solid nuclear fuel elements difficult and uneconomical for current solid-core reactors;

(7) this aspect of thorium use led early nuclear experts such as Eugene Wigner and Alvin Weinberg to propose the use of thorium in liquid-fueled reactors where fuel fabrication was unnecessary;

(8) these liquid-fueled reactors were originally developed in the United States by Oak Ridge National Laboratory and demonstrated to be safe and effective, but national priorites at the time did not advance their development;

(9) those national priorities are now significantly different and liquid-fueled thorium reactors can achieve national goals of—(A) long-term energy independence; (B) resistance to nuclear proliferation; and (C) near-elimination of nuclear waste requiring geologic disposal;

(10)(A) thorium is more abundant than uranium; and (B) the United States possesses significant domestic quantities of thorium to ensure energy independence;

(11) it is in the national security and foreign policy interest of the United States that foreign countries seeking to establish or expand generation and use of nuclear power should be provided—(A) access to advanced thorium fuel cycle technology; and (B) incentives to reduce the risk of nuclear proliferation.


Comments, suggestions?

Kirk,

Have you contacted JJ Brown (Sen Hatch staff member) and asked him about your proposed changes in the findings? What is his view?

Also, you should point out the need to preserve U233.

I would also ask him were the other senator staffers will get their info regarding thorium/LFTR etc. We should make sure they have easy access to all the facts since we believe the facts will favor LFTR.

Now that you have established direct contact with Sen Hatches staff for this issue I assume you will use it. I assume you have his (JJ's)phone number and email address.


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 03, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Here's a list of the senators on the Senate Committee for Energy and Natural Resources.


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 04, 2008 10:22 am 
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Deseret News: Sens. Hatch, Reid support thorium nuclear power

Quote:
Passage of the so-called Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008 would provide $250 million over five years to create a new oversight arm under the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and Department of Energy. The legislation calls for the eventual regulation of domestic thorium nuclear-power generation.


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 04, 2008 3:47 pm 
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Folks, in a legislative way, this is what we have been waiting for...in a practical sense, not a wish list.

We need now to constantly harp this bill, lobby to get it passed, and do what we can to tweak it.

1. It should be part of our general response and comments on nuclear energy blogs everywhere.

2. It needs to be raised by as a the subject to blogs in the Greenie community if we can and, the DailyKos.

2.1 The DailyKos allows for the placement of 'diaries' which is what Charles and I have done. It also allows for the placement of 'stories' which are cataloged differently. We need to start blogging on this Bill asap.

3. There are energy blogs out there that are not nuclear or anti-nuclear, per se, but just discuss energy. This needs to get there soon.

David

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Dr. Isaac Asimov:
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 04, 2008 4:12 pm 
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dwalters wrote:
Folks, in a legislative way, this is what we have been waiting for...in a practical sense, not a wish list.

We need now to constantly harp this bill, lobby to get it passed, and do what we can to tweak it.


I agree, but if I'm not mistaken, this Congress will be ending soon and the pending legislation will die. I think we should hope for this bill to be reintroduced in the next Congress (the 111th) hopefully with a few key changes that orient it more clearly towards the liquid-fluoride reactor, the only approach that will meet the goals of the bill.


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 04, 2008 9:14 pm 
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Kirk Sorensen wrote:
I agree, but if I'm not mistaken, this Congress will be ending soon and the pending legislation will die. I think we should hope for this bill to be reintroduced in the next Congress (the 111th) hopefully with a few key changes that orient it more clearly towards the liquid-fluoride reactor, the only approach that will meet the goals of the bill.


If anyone has a text to mailed to your representatives, please past it here. I already sent the Dr. Honzik letter to Steve Israel (D), LI, NY with some text added, but that is sub-optimal. For an efficient lobbying it is useful to write your district's representative individual letters, short and simple, with pointing to additional resources, rather than trying to write out everything (from my wife who has more experience with this). Would someone with writing skills (Rod?) draft such a letter?

There are resources on advocacy/lobbying from American Physical Society - http://aps.org/policy/tools/index.cfm

Here is something more specific: http://www.setcvd.org/cvd2008/cvd08-bri ... cument.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Thorium Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008
PostPosted: Oct 04, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Remember that the most effective thing that could be done right now is to target those senators on the Committee for Energy and Natural Resources. They are the ones who will be able to influence this disproportionately. Note that neither Hatch nor Reid is on this committee.

Ask yourself, do I live in:

Alabama (Sessions)
Alaska (Murkowski)
Arkansas (Lincoln)
Colorado (Salazar)
Florida (Martinez)
Hawaii (Akaka)
Idaho (Craig)
Kentucky (Bunning)
Louisiana (Landrieu)
Montana (Tester)
New Jersey (Menendez)
New Mexico (Bingaman, chairman, Domenici)
North Carolina (Burr)
North Dakota (Dorgan)
Oregon (Wyden, Smith)
South Carolina (DeMint)
South Dakota (Johnson)
Tennessee (Corker)
Vermont (Sanders)
Washington (Cantwell)
Wyoming (Barrasso)


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